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Tech analyst believes Destiny 2 can't be saved


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#1
Art of War

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Activision’s ‘Destiny 2’ is ‘struggling’ as gamers are unhappy over microtransactions: Analyst

CNBC.com

 

  • Cowen reiterates its market perform rating on Activision Blizzard shares, citing increasing evidence players are leaving the "Destiny" community.
  • "Destiny 2 is struggling right now with player engagement appearing to be on the wane," analyst Doug Creutz writes in a note to clients Tuesday entitled "Destiny is Not in a Good Place."
  • The game's "microtransaction implementation, while not nearly as problematic as in Star Wars Battlefront 2, has still been a source of player unhappiness," he adds.

 

Player interest in Activision Blizzard's "Destiny 2" is dropping, which will hurt the game publisher's add-on revenue this year, one Wall Street firm predicts.

 

Cowen reiterated its market perform rating on Activision Blizzard shares, citing increasing evidence players are leaving the "Destiny" community.

 

"While Call of Duty: WWII clearly had a great holiday, which likely sets up strong franchise live services revenue in 2018, Destiny 2 is struggling right now with player engagement appearing to be on the wane," analyst Doug Creutz wrote in a note to clients Tuesday entitled "Destiny is Not in a Good Place."

 

"We are a bit cautious that potentially disappointing live service revenue there could at least partially offset upside from CoD in 2018," he said

 

Creutz reaffirmed his $66 price target for Activision Blizzard shares, representing 7 percent downside to Monday's close.

 

He said several key "Destiny" video streamers have announced they will reduce content for the game in the future. He noted Twitch viewership for the game is at "franchise-low" levels averaging 4,000 to 7,000 viewers on Friday afternoons versus 14,000 to 17,000 for "Destiny 1" one year ago.

 

Creutz also shared four key reasons why he believes the game is faltering:

 

1. "Design decisions were made that have made D2 a less engaging, and less distinctive, game than D1. In particular, key aspects of the D2 end game feel neutered compared to D1."
2. "Microtransaction implementation, while not nearly as problematic as in Star Wars Battlefront 2, has still been a source of player unhappiness."
3. "Bungie's [the studio that developed the game] apparent urgency in responding to player feedback has been disappointing."
4. "Until recently, Bungie did a poor job communicating its road map going forward, particularly compared to the more open stance of many other live service games."

 

As a result, the analyst is not optimistic the company will be able to turn the "Destiny" franchise around.

 

"We do think Bungie still has some opportunity to fix the game's problems over the next year and recapture engagement, but we're not sure they have the ability to pull it off at this point," he wrote. "We also note that Destiny currently has more serious competition in its genre from a refurbished Division (Ubisoft) and the indie title Warframe than it did three years ago, when D1 had its own share of player dissatisfaction."

 

The company did not immediately respond to a request for comment.


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#2
michael6745

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Interesting article. 

 

I thought Division was a dead game, but that's all I hear about right now from folks who are taking a break from Destiny 2 until it gets its act together.  So why can't Destiny 2 get it's act together like The Division over time.  I know the answer is that it should have already had its act together.  But like the Assassin's Creed series which the critics thought was going to die, it needs to figure out what it wants to do or they'll flounder and that article will come true.

 

Interesting stat from a Reddit poster regarding Destiny population.

 

https://www.reddit.c...ackers_archive/

 

I can't confirm his/her data, but interesting that the current Destiny population is more than where D1 was during Age of Triumph.

 

I'm not saying D2 doesn't need to be fixed.  I think it can.  It's just that there are more new games that are getting peoples interest right now.  I was going to do a separate post, but this is a good place to put it. Between 2015 and 2017 the number of games installed on my PS4 was 2. Destiny and Assassin's Creed Unity. 

 

2018 the number of games installed on my PS4: 8

Destiny 2

Ratchet and Clank

Assissin's Creed Origins

Horizon Zero Dawn 

Mirror's Edge 

Warframe 

Fortnight

One other I can't remember the name right now.

 

I haven't started many of them yet.  I keep myself busy in Destiny 2.  I've been playing Destiny 1 PVP on occasion.  



#3
str8upnobs

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Now if anything will get Bungie/Activi$ion's attention it will be stuff like this imo. I don't think they really take it seriously until the "bottom line" is at stake. Forum threads and salt may get some media traction, but when Wall St. and other prognosticators start talking about a dreary stock/potential future revenue, this will imo get their attention before anything else. If not. . . Well then, that's not a good sign.

 

I'm still not aboard the salt bandwagon, as I'm looking forward to coming back when new/improved content drops for D2. But as I said previously in another thread, I am also in the "found something else to play" group currently.

 

Btw @ Michael: Horizon Zero Dawn and AC Origins are 2 of the best games I've played in the past 12 months or so. Definitely worthy of the space on your PS4 hard drive!



#4
VaeVictus

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I was a huge Destiny 1 fan. My excitement for Destiny 2 prior to release was massive. Destiny 1 was my daily go to. Money spent on other games was greatly reduced when D1 launched. I had no reason to think differently about D2, until I played it. 

 

The game D1 became is superior in so many ways. The things they took out, the changes they made did nothing but make this a bland piece of baked chicken. A filling meal, but nothing to write home about. The grind is gone. Tokens are lame. The story is generic. The instant teleportation removed the discovery and size of the maps. The Cabal are a lame enemy. The weapon arrangement was not broken, now it is. 

 

I could really go on. They changed the game too much. I, along with a number of my other fellow Destiny players have gone back to D1. 

 

Bungie really needs to figure this out, but based on their recent actions, i don't see it happening. This makes me sad as I truly did love this franchse before D2. 



#5
michael6745

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I don't know why there are so many people who are annoyed by the token system.  It's not great, but it serves a purpose.

 

In D1, when you ranked up a faction, i.e. Crucible. if you kept playing and then ranked it up again but never went to see Shaxx in between rankings, you lost the reward for that one rank.

 

The token system allows you to keep playing the game without having to worry about losing that rank reward.  It also allows you to utilize your work from one character to rank up another character if you so choose.   

 

It's basically accomplishing the same thing for ranking up your character but  with two bonuses.

 

In D1, I would rank up my faction for Shaxx or Cryptarch, or whatever, get the reward and shard it because it wasn't what I wanted.  In D2, I do the exact same thing.

 

??



#6
VaeVictus

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Tokens are bland. There is nothing 'to them' that differentiates rewards from a variety of planets. There was something more organic about cashing in a currency unique to the planets/activities I had in D1. It wasn't a perfect system, but it felt right. Tokens are just another helping of instant mashed potatoes to supplement my steamed broccoli with no seasoning and baked chicken; also with no seasoning. 

 

Too much was unnecessarily changed from D1. This is just a small component that stands out. 



#7
michael6745

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Tokens are bland. There is nothing 'to them' that differentiates rewards from a variety of planets. There was something more organic about cashing in a currency unique to the planets/activities I had in D1. It wasn't a perfect system, but it felt right. Tokens are just another helping of instant mashed potatoes to supplement my steamed broccoli with no seasoning and baked chicken; also with no seasoning. 

 

Too much was unnecessarily changed from D1. This is just a small component that stands out. 

 

What currencies unique to planet activities was there in D1?  I got vanguard rep when I did patrols, planetary materials when i found the items and I got glimmer from killing things.  ????

 

Yes, the tokens are a small component, but its one I don't understand the beef behind.

 

So, you prefer the D1 way of running the crucible and if you ranked up twice without going back to the tower you lose the reward?  I don't see how that was better.

 

Much of the changes that happened in D2 were asked for by the players.  A new system that allowed players to stay in game when they rank up and not have to worry about losing rewards was one of them.  



#8
VaeVictus

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What currencies unique to planet activities was there in D1?  I got vanguard rep when I did patrols, planetary materials when i found the items and I got glimmer from killing things.  ????

 

Yes, the tokens are a small component, but its one I don't understand the beef behind.

 

So, you prefer the D1 way of running the crucible and if you ranked up twice without going back to the tower you lose the reward?  I don't see how that was better.

 

Much of the changes that happened in D2 were asked for by the players.  A new system that allowed players to stay in game when they rank up and not have to worry about losing rewards was one of them.  

I'm not suggesting 'losing' a reward is better. 



#9
sgtcoy

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I remember everyone saying they wished they didn't lose a reward after they ranked up the crucible/faction/vanguard..  Said no one that I played with ever.  The token system wasn't an improvement at all, didn't hurt but it didn't really do anything either. 

 

I don't need to see bar graphs/charts/formulas/databases to see the community of old has left the building.  The writing was on the wall back in October when everyone a full fireteam in your clan was about as rare as a two-headed bullfrog.  I'm shocked it took the streamers this long to realize they better get good at another game if they want to have a channel with subscribers because the D2 content they put out was as weak as it was to play.  The only people left playing are the casuals.  The hard core gamers from D1 left on a Jet plane and don't know when they will be back again....


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#10
michael6745

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I'm not suggesting 'losing' a reward is better. 

 

Tokens do provide you rewards when you rank up you character for that faction.  

 

I remember everyone saying they wished they didn't lose a reward after they ranked up the crucible/faction/vanguard..  Said no one that I played with ever.  The token system wasn't an improvement at all, didn't hurt but it didn't really do anything either. 

 

I don't need to see bar graphs/charts/formulas/databases to see the community of old has left the building.  The writing was on the wall back in October when everyone a full fireteam in your clan was about as rare as a two-headed bullfrog.  I'm shocked it took the streamers this long to realize they better get good at another game if they want to have a channel with subscribers because the D2 content they put out was as weak as it was to play.  The only people left playing are the casuals.  The hard core gamers from D1 left on a Jet plane and don't know when they will be back again....

 

 

All I am trying to do here is have a conversation that doesn't include and conjecture, Bungie bashing or anything.  Yes. the game is flawed, we know that.  It's been said many many times.  All i hear is the same things.  So now I'm asking for the vague statements to be made into constructive thoughts.

 

I chose one subject, the tokens. just to get a conversation going beyond Destiny 2 and Bungie bashing.

 

Yes. I've actually heard people and youtubers complain that you lost a reward when you ranked up. 

 

The token system works the same way as ranking up, but it actually gives you more.  In Destiny I could run around the moon, collect Helium Filaments, shoot things and collect glimmer, open chests and collect glimmer.  But unless I was doing a patrol or story mission, I received NO "credit" with any faction with regards to what I was doing.  If I did a rare public event, I got a few odd engrams, but no ranking XP. 

 

With the tokens, you get tokens for doing just about anything, which means I get rank on that planet.  

 

So, if you don't like the token system, what system would work for you that would provide you faction points for doing any event on a planet, allows you to utilize those faction points on any of your characters, and allows you to no lose any rewards if you get enough faction rank to rank up multiple times.

 

Right now I'm sitting on multiple hundreds of tokens for each faction waiting for January 30th so I have a better chance of getting Masterwork Armor to drop.  Would your system allow this to happen as well?

 

What else would you like to have happen in the realm of the token system and how you receive rewards?


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#11
Vipertec

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I don't mind the token system at all , it works for me in most cases , I still play D2 on a daily basis and I don't see that changing anytime soon , while I  don't have a lot of complaints about it ( I must be one of the filthy casuals everyone's talking about) there are a few thing that need fixed , no other games have really grabbed my attention so I'll just keep on grinding along ! 


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#12
str8upnobs

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I'm personally fine with the token system too. Is it kind of boring? Yes. Lack of imagination? Sure. Does it work as intended? Definitely. Can they in some way shape or form improve on it? You bet!

 

That being out of the way. . . sgtcoy's daily sprinkling of "salt" ;)  got me thinking back to articles I knew I had read in the fairly early days of D1 (relative to the current D2 timeline), so I did some digging and as I thought a lot of similar things with the community were being said. I'm sure they can and will be ran with either way someone wants to construe them, but I find it quite telling in multiple ways the way people were reacting to D1 and now D2.

 

https://kotaku.com/f...ng-a-1684813586

 

 

Not Enough Carrots

As I was partway through writing this article, I saw a thread on the Destiny subbreddit titled "Who else feels like taking a break from Destiny until the next expansion?" I've seen that sentiment shared more and more at the various Destiny hubs I frequent, and this particular thread captured the zeitgeist.

"I broke 800 hours of combined gameplay," the original poster, temporarycreature, wrote, "and I'm just feeling bored and burned out. I'm not complaining. I am not threatening Bungie. I just hit a wall, and I don't feel like doing the same things over, and over, day in, and day out."

The thread has more than a thousand responses, many from other players who feel similarly. The whole thing boils down to carrots, basically.

"The main problem with the dangling of the carrot progression is, once you get the carrot (or enough bites of it), you really don't feel the need to keep chasing it," responds one player, supaloco.

"This whole thread makes me scared that Bungie will make the carrot harder to catch when [the House of Wolves expansion] comes out…" writes another player, banannabelle, in response. "I've minimized my playtime considerably since [Crota's End hard mode] came out, because I'm tired of chasing the carrot."

 

 

https://kotaku.com/d...ater-1678011068

 

 

More Subscription Than 'Expansion'

The single biggest change to Destiny has come in the form of The Dark Below, a collection of missions and new gear billed by Bungie and their publisher Activision as an "expansion." It feels pretty thin compared to expansions in other MMOs and RPGs, but that's what they're calling it, so.

Thing is... The Dark Below doesn't quite feel like an expansion pack. It doesn't feel optional, like the sort of thing some players could choose to ignore in order to continue playing vanilla Destiny. That's mainly because missions exclusive to The Dark Below have been added to the weekly mix for all players, even those who don't own it.

 

 

 

Destiny's Actual Biggest Flaw

My colleague and Destiny comrade-in-arms Jason Schreier has been (justly) critical of the unfortunate ways that The Dark Below changes Destiny's loot system. A couple of weeks ago, he argued that Destiny's biggest flaw was the fact that the game ties post-level-20 progression to your armor, rather than to experience points. By making your level-progress dependent on your armor, Bungie tied your character's access to the game's most rewarding high-level challenges to your gear, rather than directly to in-game experience.

 

The gear you really need—the high-level stuff from the raid—can only be obtained through random drops, meaning that the gear you get is only partly connected to the amount of time and work you put into the game. It was possible to complete the Vault of Glass a dozen or more times—as I did—and still find yourself missing one crucial piece of armor—as I also did. It was also possible to complete the Vault one or two times—as I heard of many others doing—and walk away with a full set, comfortably on your way to level 30. Bungie claims to have improved their loot algorithm for the new raid, but the sourness of the random number generator lingers.

 

I agree with Jason that Destiny's is a flawed system, particularly given the fact that Bungie has asked us to redo all of our exotic items a mere three months after we first started. But I don't agree that the loot system is the game's biggest flaw. It's just a symptom of the game's actual biggest flaw, which is that there simply isn't enough to do.

 

There's a scene in The Lord of the Rings where Frodo tells Sam that due to the corrupting power of the One Ring, he feels "sort of stretched, like apricot jelly scraped over too much toast." Or something like that. Anyway, that's Destiny: delicious apricot jelly scraped over too much toast.

 

Destiny's lack of "content," for lack of a better word, is the source from which the game's other problems flow. The maddening weekly currency caps, the ceaseless repetition, the bizarre upgrade requirements, the stingy loot system: All are designed to force people to sink dozens of hours into a game they'd otherwise blow through over the course of a weekend.

 

With The Dark Below, Bungie has performed a bleak magic trick: They've transformed a meagre handful of story missions, a single strike, and a single raid into dozens and dozens of hours of gameplay, simply by carefully scraping the whole thing over a time-consuming leveling process.

 

Did you spend a week leveling up an exotic gun or piece of armor? Cool, now you can trade it in for an identical version with a bigger number on it and spend a week upgrading it all over again!

Did you already spend a bunch of in-game money on the gear you have? Too bad, everything you need now is twice as expensive, so you better get grinding.

 

Want to get to level 32? Good luck, you're going to have to collect a full set of raid armor and 63 hard-to-come-by radiant shards to do so.

 

Oh, and you know those raid guns you spent the last few months winning and leveling up? Well, now they're a bit underpowered, and they'll be obsolete in another week or two. Sorry!

If you're in it for the loot—and all of us are, to some extent or another, in it for the loot—it's tempting to just throw your hands up and quit.

 

Now in short, because there is a lot more to read there than I quoted. . . I think the past and present in a round about way indicate that Bungie is guilty of a lot of the accusations the community is throwing their way. But also things weren't always sunny and awesome as some remember in D1 either. They've proven that they are poor to ok at release, and they finish fairly strong after sloooowly listening and implementing changes. Is this ideal? Probably not. Is it the end of the world and the death knell to Bungie and the community? Doubt it.

 

 



#13
michael6745

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After I read your links I decided to through Kotaku's archives and found this gem.

 

 

https://kotaku.com/t...tiny-1798437277

 

It is an article that they recapped the three years of writing about Destiny before Destiny 2 dropped.

 

The second to the last paragraph..

 

 

 

Bungie made a few subsequent attempts to get players like me back into Destiny, but they all failed to different degrees. I didn’t really want to re-play old raids yet again. I grew tired of the largely stale PvP meta, and longed for the days when Trials of Osiris was new and exciting. I didn’t care about my light level, and with a sequel on the horizon, I couldn’t get too excited about loot. Last spring, as my old raid buddies and I limped through a couple hours of the revamped Vault of Glass, I realized I was done.

 

 

I hear so many people say they want Destiny 2 to be like Desitny 1 was and everything I re-read about Destiny 1 is not that glorious.


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#14
VaeVictus

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After I read your links I decided to through Kotaku's archives and found this gem.

 

 

https://kotaku.com/t...tiny-1798437277

 

It is an article that they recapped the three years of writing about Destiny before Destiny 2 dropped.

 

The second to the last paragraph..

 

 

 

I hear so many people say they want Destiny 2 to be like Desitny 1 was and everything I re-read about Destiny 1 is not that glorious.

 

 

I never left Destiny 1. There was always some grind or reason for me to play it. 

There is nothing for me to do in this game. They changed too much about it. I'm not at all trying to bash Bungie. I just do not understand why they changed so much from the first game. I bought the full experience at launch (all DLC) with the same excitement and fervor I had after the first time I played D1. 

I don't recognize this game. It isn't bad, but it isn't compelling in any way. It is generic, which to me is worse almost than being bad. 


Edited by VaeVictus, 25 January 2018 - 11:42 AM.


#15
str8upnobs

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After I read your links I decided to through Kotaku's archives and found this gem.

 

 

https://kotaku.com/t...tiny-1798437277

 

It is an article that they recapped the three years of writing about Destiny before Destiny 2 dropped.

 

The second to the last paragraph..

 

 

 

I hear so many people say they want Destiny 2 to be like Desitny 1 was and everything I re-read about Destiny 1 is not that glorious.

 

 

My memories of D1 are bittersweet. When I left (which in all fairness was well before a lot of the QoL changes were implemented) other than mindlessly grinding (which I did do until I snapped out of the trance), the only things imo that were worthwhile were the raids. There was pretty much zero story ( D2's can be taken as a bad one, but at least it was there this time), the grind was monotonous, strikes were fun the first ~ 20 times or so, but after that meh.

 

To me D1 was like that first hit of nicotine you ever had. The buzz was sooooo good. . . And you spend the rest of your time trying to achieve the unachievable 1st feeling. Then suddenly after ~1000 hours you realize you might as well be lab rat in some social experiment. Because you're basically mindlessly pulling at that lever in vain.

 

All this probably makes it sound like I hated D1. . . But I didn't/don't. I hated how dirty it made me feel when I finally realized the meaningless, empty addiction I had acquired. That's why I quit and never looked back. I was fully aware of this going into D2 , and they seemed to have toned down the subconscious pointless grind. That's probably why I've had waaay less bad things to say about D2. Because I've enjoyed it so far for what it is and don't feel as if I need to shower after playing it thus far.  /rant


Edited by str8upnobs, 25 January 2018 - 12:25 PM.


#16
michael6745

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My issue is, and I don't know why I have this issue, is I am not having as much fun in the crucible.

 

I used to log on when I got home from work between 5 and 6 and run about an hour in PvE and then play Crucible will I went to be between 11 and midnight.  

 

Now I run about 5 games, run a couple strikes and then watch TV.

 

So, something has changed that I no longer find the want to spend hours and hours playing.  But I can't tell you what that is.  I find much of the issues that are being talked about are there, but they don't bother me as many of them were in D1 and got fixed.  But something is different about the game that I am not hankering to be playing PvP.  

 

 

??????


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#17
sgtcoy

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Well I re-read what I wrote and I wasn't really bashing them for once.  I only said that losing out of a "package" was never not once a topic of discussion of anyone in my clan.  I played the game 1500+ hours and I'm sure I prolly missed a package here and there but it wasn't anything that kept me up at night.  I thought the system worked fine because it was never a jump up and down moment for me, "I'm pumped, I just ranked up, now I get a package" it just never occurred.  So what I said was that it didn't improve anything or make anything worse with the tokens.  I personally think its cheesy and unrewarding especially getting tokens for beating the raid or other end game content, instead of getting rewards. 

 

D2 keeps getting compared to vanilla D1.  You guys keep bringing up posts and talking about how little excitement each DLC was and what was missing.  What I don't understand is why we compare the two.  D2 was supposed to take Y3 of D1 and expand and deliver game changing content.  What we expected was at bare minimum a baseline of Y3.  I prolly would have complained that it didn't go a step further than Y3 when this game came out. 

 

When I buy a IPhone 12 I expect that it is better than the IPhone 11 in every facet.  Not to go backwards and get IPhone 10 quality.  Kinda the same premise here. 

 

So that is why my posts are most of the time sarcastic and snarky.  Not trying to be disrespectful to the individual just pointing out personal experience.  Hence this being a open forum rather than a "Pro-Bungie supporters" forum.  If there was a sub thread that was just to praising and worshipping D2 and the creators I would leave it be.  Let the praisers get their praise on.  But it is currently a open format which allows others to voice opposing opinions. 

 

The reason that most people don't play Crucible like they did in D1 is simply the fact that all the guns/armor are the same and there is really no way to stand out or get better.  D1 was always reward centered as is D2 but getting a 10 streak in D2 is not even close as rewarding as it was in D1.  That is why people don't play as often.  4v4 was a different twist (bad IMO) and not being able to play the game modes you like (Rumble,Domination, TDM, etc.) it has turned very monotonous and has less replay ability.  My view to fix it is not a simple approach.  6v6 will be tough on these smaller maps.  There is little to no sniper play so everyone is all huddled up all the time which becomes little 4v4 wars in the middle of the map and luck being the only thing that allows you to live.  So there would need to be larger maps.  They should bring back special weapons (sniper, shotty, fusion) and let us use them all the time or at least a magazine worth every life.  And the biggest improvement (which won't happen) is allowing, at bare minimum, guns to have random rolls.  Until then the Crucible will continue to be what it is now, a borefest. 

 

I'll try not to post a negative thought from here on out without giving my opinion of how the game could improve.  Like it or hate it, it will be my opinion and will most likely differ from yours.  But there are obvious problems when streamers, twitch, and hard core fans have left in droves.  Like I've said, I apologize for leaking sodium constantly.  Just hate seeing a game/franchise that I loathed turn into what it is now, which is a money first and player base second mind set from developers who used to be the best in the business.      


I guess I never really explained why I don't like the Token system.  I understand that you are saving up your tokens to turn them all in at once and get all the MW armor as soon as the update goes live.  But what happens when you get everything you want all at once?  What replay ability is there?  I was never a fan of saving up 20+ exotic engrams everytime a DLC dropped so you would have 20 chances of getting all the new exotics.  What happens when you get them all?  Do you keep playing and then complain when you get a exotic and it is nothing new?  The term exotic at that point is no different than getting a blue gun/armor piece after a public event. 

 

This is why I was always a fan of getting your rewards one at a time.  You rank up, you go and get your package.  Sure it takes longer but why not work for what you want instead of getting it given to you on the first day.  I would rather have 20 rewards "earned" over a course of 2 weeks over getting 20 rewards all at once because you hoarded "tokens."  That is why I have stated that the token system doesn't do anyone including Bungie any favors.   


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#18
michael6745

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Well I re-read what I wrote and I wasn't really bashing them for once.  I only said that losing out of a "package" was never not once a topic of discussion of anyone in my clan.  I played the game 1500+ hours and I'm sure I prolly missed a package here and there but it wasn't anything that kept me up at night.  I thought the system worked fine because it was never a jump up and down moment for me, "I'm pumped, I just ranked up, now I get a package" it just never occurred.  So what I said was that it didn't improve anything or make anything worse with the tokens.  I personally think its cheesy and unrewarding especially getting tokens for beating the raid or other end game content, instead of getting rewards. 

 

I understand this rank up system in D1 wasn't a wide spread community uproar situation. But it was talked about and I have played in the Crucible several times and got frustrated when I was solo playing but kept getting matched up with some good players and had to leave to go get the reward before I lost it.  What I miss the most is being able to be match made with the same group for multiple games.

 

 

 

D2 keeps getting compared to vanilla D1.  You guys keep bringing up posts and talking about how little excitement each DLC was and what was missing.  What I don't understand is why we compare the two.  D2 was supposed to take Y3 of D1 and expand and deliver game changing content.  What we expected was at bare minimum a baseline of Y3.  I prolly would have complained that it didn't go a step further than Y3 when this game came out. 

 

When I buy a IPhone 12 I expect that it is better than the IPhone 11 in every facet.  Not to go backwards and get IPhone 10 quality.  Kinda the same premise here. 

 

This is a very valid point.  The only explanation I can see is if the rumor is true that they only had 16 months to put D2 together because it was rebooted in process, then they didn't have time to put everything they wanted to do.  From what I hear, the Live team, who has the reigns of D2 now, were not happy with many of the decisions that put D2 on the track it was put on.  But that's all in the past, the comments have been made and my frustration is the constant bashing.  I'm worn out to the point I don't like to read much about D2 anymore. I just play.

 

 

 

The reason that most people don't play Crucible like they did in D1 is simply the fact that all the guns/armor are the same and there is really no way to stand out or get better.  D1 was always reward centered as is D2 but getting a 10 streak in D2 is not even close as rewarding as it was in D1.  That is why people don't play as often.  4v4 was a different twist (bad IMO) and not being able to play the game modes you like (Rumble,Domination, TDM, etc.) it has turned very monotonous and has less replay ability.  My view to fix it is not a simple approach.  6v6 will be tough on these smaller maps.  There is little to no sniper play so everyone is all huddled up all the time which becomes little 4v4 wars in the middle of the map and luck being the only thing that allows you to live.  So there would need to be larger maps.  They should bring back special weapons (sniper, shotty, fusion) and let us use them all the time or at least a magazine worth every life.  And the biggest improvement (which won't happen) is allowing, at bare minimum, guns to have random rolls.  Until then the Crucible will continue to be what it is now, a borefest. 

 

 

Yes, the D2 Crucible is flat. But I have to say, many of the changes that were made were because of the YouTubers and the community.  Triplewreck wanted 4v4, now he has it, he doesn't want it.  The community was tired of OP weapons, now they want them back for the hero moments.

 

Bungie took a chance and put in much of what the community wanted and it bit them in the face.  Was it the implementation or something else that has made it not work?  I don't know.  

 

I do agree, I miss the hero moments. Yeah, I don't like to get sniped. But when it happens, I always say... "good shot... a$$hole"...  Sniping was fun, getting sniped sucks. But this meta of hanging around in a group is even worse.  I played a game last night that was 4 randoms against a very good team of 4. They always hung out as 2s or 4s and we lost 50 to 17.  They just trashes us in groups.  I prefer snipers as I used to be able to challenge them from afar with my MIDA/Hung Jury.  

 

I don't know how they're going to make 6v6 work on these maps. Maybe they'll bring back many of the D1 maps, which I would happy with.  As long as it doesn't include Black Shield.   LOL.  I can just hear the community bitching that Bungie is re-utilizing content.  I don't know the solution.  But I want to Crucible to be MORE fun again.  Yes, that is bad English.  I'm having fun, just not as much as I used to.

 

 

 

I guess I never really explained why I don't like the Token system.  I understand that you are saving up your tokens to turn them all in at once and get all the MW armor as soon as the update goes live.  But what happens when you get everything you want all at once?  What replay ability is there?  I was never a fan of saving up 20+ exotic engrams everytime a DLC dropped so you would have 20 chances of getting all the new exotics.  What happens when you get them all?  Do you keep playing and then complain when you get a exotic and it is nothing new?  The term exotic at that point is no different than getting a blue gun/armor piece after a public event. 

 

This is why I was always a fan of getting your rewards one at a time.  You rank up, you go and get your package.  Sure it takes longer but why not work for what you want instead of getting it given to you on the first day.  I would rather have 20 rewards "earned" over a course of 2 weeks over getting 20 rewards all at once because you hoarded "tokens."  That is why I have stated that the token system doesn't do anyone including Bungie any favors.   

 

The issue here is, this is just like it was in D1.  At the end, I had everything,  I had a god rolled Eyasluna, all the exotics, I had the armor set that I wanted.  95% of the engrams I decoded were instant shards.  I'm at that point in D2 now.  I have everything.  I'm just farming for shards and cores.  

 

You stated you prefer to have 20 rewards earned over a couple of weeks over getting the same because I hoarded tokens.  The thing is, It took me a couple of weeks to store up those tokens.  So I'm getting the same reward over the same amount of time, but I get to choose when I receive them.  Most of them will be sharded anyway. Hopefully they'll be cores involved.  Too be honest, my OCD kicks in and I hate when I see a vendor with a flashing thing above their head and I have to turn in my tokens.  So this wait is actually killing me with all the flashing icons.  MAKE THEM STOP.  :)

 

When RoI was about to drop, I hoarded exotic engrams.  I think I hoarded 40 of them, and then decrypted them after I finished the RoI story line to get the higher light leveled stuff.  Because of that, I was able to get my Hunter to the highest light very quickly and afterwards I felt I cheated myself.   


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#19
sgtcoy

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Yeah I can see your point.  The hoarding of engrams happened in our clan as well and then a week later they were complaining that they had everything.  I was never about being the 1st to get everything because I actually enjoyed playing.  So in the end, to each their own. 

 

I realize that a lot of people wanted to change the crucible.  And who knows with random rolls, being able to pick your game mode, and not having to team shoot might turn 4v4 into something nice.  What made everyone not group up in a wad and roll through the maps team shooting was the role of the sniper.  A sniper or 2 was always lurking in the background picking off people while groups of 1 or 2 would get into 1 and 2 man firefights.  But the problem is they have doubled down and made snipers in the heavy category and switching that would prolly be impossible. 

 

I never got a god-rolled Eysaluna or Imago Loop but you can bet I played Classic mode 3v3 for about 3 months (while trying to get the wins for the grimoire) to try and get it.  It gave me something to do when I played of a morning when no one else was on.  I used skeleton key after skeleton key on Venus strikes for the Imago Loop and always came up one perk shy of getting a good one.  But it kept me playing.  If static rolls on weapons were implemented in D1 I would have stopped playing many many months before I did. 

 

I still haven't played D2 since early November and prolly wont because of the changes that were made.  Its not that I am rolling around throwing a fit and demanding they fix it so I can play it again, I just wouldn't mind playing with guys in our clan.  Virtually everyone is playing other games and has been for the last few months.  I've gotten my fix on getting different rolls on guns and armor with the Division.  If you can get past 3rd person playstyle it is a solid game.  And if they put out a Division 2 I would expect it pick up where it left off with the latest patch but add additional content and keep the fun factor at a high.  If they fail to deliver I won't play it either. 


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#20
michael6745

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I'm currently playing Assassin's Creed Origins on occasion.  I'm still into the fast pace of Destiny.  I've tried Warframe, I tried to get into a game of Fortnight last night for the first time last night and I sat there for 10 minutes and said screw it. Went back to Destiny.

 

I would be interested in seeing that they add a 4th weapon slot.  I like the double primary, so I don't want that to go away. But yes, pulling the sniper and shotty out of the heavy slot would be interesting. They need to rework heavy ammo anyway. I'm tired of being shoulder charged by my own teammate.  If they do that to me, I just go mess with their heavy shot (stand in front of them when they fire a rocket, bump them then they're sniping)...

 

But the heavy is stale.  It's usually rocket launchers (guilty). Every once in a while I see a fusion, shotty or sniper.  But heavy needs a rework.

 

My Eyasluna was Rangefinder, Riffled Barrel and LiTC.  It was one of about 50 Eyasluna's I got.  My Eyas RNG was amazing.  


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#21
str8upnobs

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Well I re-read what I wrote and I wasn't really bashing them for once.  I only said that losing out of a "package" was never not once a topic of discussion of anyone in my clan.  I played the game 1500+ hours and I'm sure I prolly missed a package here and there but it wasn't anything that kept me up at night.  I thought the system worked fine because it was never a jump up and down moment for me, "I'm pumped, I just ranked up, now I get a package" it just never occurred.  So what I said was that it didn't improve anything or make anything worse with the tokens.  I personally think its cheesy and unrewarding especially getting tokens for beating the raid or other end game content, instead of getting rewards. 

 

D2 keeps getting compared to vanilla D1.  You guys keep bringing up posts and talking about how little excitement each DLC was and what was missing.  What I don't understand is why we compare the two.  D2 was supposed to take Y3 of D1 and expand and deliver game changing content.  What we expected was at bare minimum a baseline of Y3.  I prolly would have complained that it didn't go a step further than Y3 when this game came out. 

 

When I buy a IPhone 12 I expect that it is better than the IPhone 11 in every facet.  Not to go backwards and get IPhone 10 quality.  Kinda the same premise here. 

 

So that is why my posts are most of the time sarcastic and snarky.  Not trying to be disrespectful to the individual just pointing out personal experience.  Hence this being a open forum rather than a "Pro-Bungie supporters" forum.  If there was a sub thread that was just to praising and worshipping D2 and the creators I would leave it be.  Let the praisers get their praise on.  But it is currently a open format which allows others to voice opposing opinions. 


 

I'll try not to post a negative thought from here on out without giving my opinion of how the game could improve.  Like it or hate it, it will be my opinion and will most likely differ from yours.  But there are obvious problems when streamers, twitch, and hard core fans have left in droves.  Like I've said, I apologize for leaking sodium constantly.  Just hate seeing a game/franchise that I loathed turn into what it is now, which is a money first and player base second mind set from developers who used to be the best in the business.      

 

 

While I don't agree with some of the things you have issue with I enjoy reading others views on the situation. And when I poke fun at you for the salt that's all it is. Me poking fun. Salt away (sarcastically) bro. We all enyoy/have enjoyed Destiny in some shape or from.


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#22
Vipertec

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I played a little D1 last night , and couldn't believe the amount of people playing , the Tower was loaded and there were people out in the wild too , noobs no less , Will Destiny 2 ever be what everyone wants , probably not , it's ok IMO , but like Micheal , it doesn't have the grab like D1 had on me , I still play it everyday (D2) , because there is always something I need to get done . 


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#23
R MK XXV

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My play time has dropped significantly. 

 

Mostly because work has picked up. but when I do have time to play, I don't feel the draw to play D2. 

 

I'll might pop in and claim some clan rewards. 

Run a few heroic strikes ... which usually ends up being the same strike 3 times in a row ...

 

But after that ... meh. 

 

I feel that the Fast Travel option has taken a lot away from the game for me too. 

I use to like to explore every possible area of a planet. 

Now its ...

"Hmm there is an event starting over there.  Blip!

Ok, thats done.  Where is another one starting.  Blip!

Next! Blip!"

 

I still get lost on planets if I wander too far away from a starting point.  Yes, that's pretty sad isn't it. 


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#24
sgtcoy

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I would quote several things but my work computer is not capable.  

 

The Eysaluna you got Michael was the one that I was after.  I could only get 2 out of 3 and that was it.  Most of the time I ran with the Palindrome and did just fine.  

 

I've heard alot of good things about Assassin's Creed.  Several guys have been playing it out of our clan.  But with me I'm stuck on the Division.  The gear and weapon choices are endless.  So my fix is definitely satisfied at the moment. 

 

It will be interesting to see what and where D2 will be headed when we approach the year mark.  It will be make or break for them.  They will either reverse course and steer away from its current state or they will double down and make D2 not great again.  I will be watching but honestly I'm not holding my breath.  Too many opportunities to deliver and its fell short IMO. 

 

Like I've said I will try to steer clear of "constant" Bungie-bashing.  I will only pour salt modestly as that is the only way we can talk about a game we have invested more time than makes sense. 

 

Might have to flip back over and run VOG or Croata one night.  I know there is a few that need the Flawless Raider to get the platinum and hanging out in D1 would prolly be more fun than I could imagine.... 


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#25
str8upnobs

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I've heard alot of good things about Assassin's Creed.  Several guys have been playing it out of our clan.  But with me I'm stuck on the Division.  The gear and weapon choices are endless.  So my fix is definitely satisfied at the moment. 

 

 

Not to drive the bus further off topic. . . But I've recently hung up D2 ( 2 Weeks and counting iirc) in favor of AC:Origins. I'm ~70 hours in so far and still extremely engrossed in the world/Gameplay loop. The loot definitely has somewhat of a ceiling, but they surprisingly offer quite a bit to chase if you so choose. Weekly community events (Mega Bosses- Think God of War scale-wise) that rotate and offer Legendary (akin to Destiny's exotic tier) loot.

 

So what details would you say are of note in The Division that is currently being played? I played at launch and stuck with it up until they dropped the (BROKEN) raid-like events, can't remember what they called them. Back then for me when I walked away the shooting and gameplay got bland and old, and the character customization options were meh to non-existent.


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