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I'm getting a little tired of your lack of communication skills Bungie...[rant]


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#1
Duke_Shambles

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"Ok ok, this has been talked to death" you're thinking, and you're right, but I'm not talking about the lack of news of any new substantial content for this supposed 10 year lifespan game. I'm not talking about misplaced decimal points in patch notes or secretive behavior keeping their fans in the dark. No, I'm talking about guns, armor, and game mechanics.

 

FFS Bungie, why can't you tell me what perks actually do. I mean, when you first read them, they seem to explain what they do, but then you start thinking about how they combine with other perks and you start wondering what the hell the statement describing the perk even means. Lets have an example. How about the perk "Icarus." The description reads "Increased Accuracy while Airborne." What does that even mean? Accuracy is not a weapon stat in Destiny. Stability, Aim Assist, Recoil Direction, and Range are stats. So what exactly does increased accuracy do? As far as my friends and players I interact with go, no one uses this perk and it is considered a garbage perk. The reason why, I believe. is because it doesn't really have any noticeable effect and also because noone actually knows what it really does.

 

"Accuracy" and "Handling" are my two biggest pet peaves with Bungie's perk descriptions as they are not measureable or comparable stats, but there are many other offenders. Why can't they use more descriptive language in defining these perks so we actually know what they do. Instead of "Increases Handling" why not "Decreases time to ADS, time to Switch Weapons. Increases Scan Speed Ramp Up when ADS." or at at least define what attributes handling encompasses as such somewhere in the damn game. I don't even have the slightest clue what accuracy is in Destiny, in most FPS games with it would mean your bloom would be reduced under sustained fire, but since destiny recoil doesn't really work that way I don't know.

 

So please, a little less vague would be good bungie, thanks. It's hard to play your game with the tools you give me when i don't even know what they do. I know I could get on reddit and look it up, because someone with way too much time on their hands tested it, while I LFG a group to play with on another site, but could you seriously put a little more effort into making your game understandable? I mean, since you didn't put those social features into this "social experience," you should have at least had time to do a better job explaining what the items in your game actually do. You know, since the items are pretty much the point of the game in the first place and all. [/rant]


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#2
Pbhou

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So, you're frustrated by vague terminology which you don't comprehend, for which there may be explanations provided by third party testers who may have taken the time to come to a clear determination as to what said vague terminology actually means in application, but you also don't want to invest the time to research and read for yourself / watch vids explaining their findings, but instead want to complain to the internet and take no real meaningful action, when you could. 

 

You're angry and/or frustrated because you're not being spoonfed.

 

What's that going to accomplish again?



#3
SantaIsFake

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I understand his point. Just like finding groups, interacting with your own clan, reading grimoire info etc shouldn't require you to leave the game to discover. The info is out there, but if they put it in the game it would get a lot more exposure and be more user friendly. Frustrating but nothing to get mad about. Hopefully whatever is next will fix some of that. I'd like to blame last gen consoles, but who knows why they make the choices they do! 



#4
metalman5150

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Blame the last gen's! Haha
But seriously Bungie is keeps their lips sealed and doesn't want us cracking the codes. That could be seen as a break in the mystique that are the formulas and calculations of a multitude of variables, including the base stats that we do know exists.

Loose lips sink ships. The mere notion that we are even discussing wtf these arbitrary non-metrics mean is a plus in Bungies book.
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#5
mrscorps

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So, you're frustrated by vague terminology which you don't comprehend, for which there may be explanations provided by third party testers who may have taken the time to come to a clear determination as to what said vague terminology actually means in application, but you also don't want to invest the time to research and read for yourself / watch vids explaining their findings, but instead want to complain to the internet and take no real meaningful action, when you could. 

 

You're angry and/or frustrated because you're not being spoonfed.

 

What's that going to accomplish again?

 

Thats one of the most empty statements I've seen lately. 

 

Spoonfed would be complaining about not knowing something that is ingame but requires search ingame to find. Complaining about that would be lazy and would be demanding to be spoonfed stuff that is found ingame. By anyone.

 

However, saying that 3rd party entities have tested and come back with reasonings about such stuff as a valid source of information easily accessed is wrong. Thats not how its supposed to be. We aren't playing a Planet Destiny, Reddit, wtv game. We are playing a bungie game. Nothing about stats, ability inner workings, etc should need to be found outside of the game.

 

There are hidden stats ingame. Aim Assist, Recoil Direction, Equip Speed, Zoom but also Accuracy which is not actually measurable it appears but SEEMS to be a conjunction of weapon bloom, hit box size at ideal ranges, aim assist and  god knows what more. Bungie talks about something which a given perk changes but doesn't explain what that something is or does. And even the defined stats like for example range, have weird perks. Rangefinder - Increases range while aiming down sights. Ok...by how much? Double? What if the weapon is already max range within that class (like it happens with Sidearms), does it buff the range beyond that? I've seen people say tat not and others that yes. If no, why is it there? If yes, then by how much? Does it double range? How does it increase range btw? Space Magic? Lets talk stability. How can a weapon like Hard Light have max stability and kick more than a weapon with noticeably less stability like Monte Carlo?  How can Rodeo, which reduces recoil (somehow), have a bigger effect than a perk that actually changes the stability stat like fitted stock? Persistence. Weapon grows more accurate the longer it is fired. Does it mean it becomes more stable? Does it Aim assist increase? Does the bloom of the shots tighten? What happens? Target Acquision. Is it Aim Assist? Strong Recoil Control. Surely it can't mean stability as that stat doesn't change with it so...what is it exactly? Why does Charge Rate on fusions have a bar that you can't increase beyond middle point, regardless of your starting point, perks or whatever? You can't have a max charge fusion?

 

And it doesn't stop there. "Increases Agility by +2". Great...how much agility do I have in the first place? "Increased armor when using Arc-Based Sublclass". Ok, by how much and why doesn't my stat bar change accordingly? AND HOW MUCH DAMM HEALTH DO I HAVE?? "Between 186 and 212 according to various sources" Which sources? "Various ytubers that did a bunch of tests but couldn't really pin point any specific number beyond that..." If my super allows a damage reduction, why isn't that stated and specified? Why doesn't bungie say it clearly? Why is it all hidden?

 

We shouldn't need to go to 3rd party sites, watch ytube tests and what not to have "AN IDEA" (because, its all it is...an IDEA, not 100% facts...those only Bungie knows) of how this stuff works. Bungie made a murky job about the various stats that affect gameplay and I'd be all about that IF they didn't mention those existed. But they do. They show you stat bars of various stats that you don't know exactly what they mean or they show you atribute bars your character possesses but you don't have the slightlest idea of what they actually mean. 

 

In that regard, I'm sorry, but Bungie needs to get their language together and make sense. If there are stats that are to be hidden from us, then they should be hidden 100%. Both from data mining but also in perk descriptions and other things. If its hidden, I don't want to know it exists. If its mentioned, then explain to me what the fuck it is and how it works.


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#6
sgtcoy

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@mrscorps...  well said sir!!!


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#7
Lil'Ubo

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Wow..... @Mrscorps just rekted the place... /thread LOL


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#8
Zydron

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Thats one of the most empty statements I've seen lately. 

 

Spoonfed would be complaining about not knowing something that is ingame but requires search ingame to find. Complaining about that would be lazy and would be demanding to be spoonfed stuff that is found ingame. By anyone.

 

However, saying that 3rd party entities have tested and come back with reasonings about such stuff as a valid source of information easily accessed is wrong. Thats not how its supposed to be. We aren't playing a Planet Destiny, Reddit, wtv game. We are playing a bungie game. Nothing about stats, ability inner workings, etc should need to be found outside of the game.

 

There are hidden stats ingame. Aim Assist, Recoil Direction, Equip Speed, Zoom but also Accuracy which is not actually measurable it appears but SEEMS to be a conjunction of weapon bloom, hit box size at ideal ranges, aim assist and  god knows what more. Bungie talks about something which a given perk changes but doesn't explain what that something is or does. And even the defined stats like for example range, have weird perks. Rangefinder - Increases range while aiming down sights. Ok...by how much? Double? What if the weapon is already max range within that class (like it happens with Sidearms), does it buff the range beyond that? I've seen people say tat not and others that yes. If no, why is it there? If yes, then by how much? Does it double range? How does it increase range btw? Space Magic? Lets talk stability. How can a weapon like Hard Light have max stability and kick more than a weapon with noticeably less stability like Monte Carlo?  How can Rodeo, which reduces recoil (somehow), have a bigger effect than a perk that actually changes the stability stat like fitted stock? Persistence. Weapon grows more accurate the longer it is fired. Does it mean it becomes more stable? Does it Aim assist increase? Does the bloom of the shots tighten? What happens? Target Acquision. Is it Aim Assist? Strong Recoil Control. Surely it can't mean stability as that stat doesn't change with it so...what is it exactly? Why does Charge Rate on fusions have a bar that you can't increase beyond middle point, regardless of your starting point, perks or whatever? You can't have a max charge fusion?

 

And it doesn't stop there. "Increases Agility by +2". Great...how much agility do I have in the first place? "Increased armor when using Arc-Based Sublclass". Ok, by how much and why doesn't my stat bar change accordingly? AND HOW MUCH DAMM HEALTH DO I HAVE?? "Between 186 and 212 according to various sources" Which sources? "Various ytubers that did a bunch of tests but couldn't really pin point any specific number beyond that..." If my super allows a damage reduction, why isn't that stated and specified? Why doesn't bungie say it clearly? Why is it all hidden?

 

We shouldn't need to go to 3rd party sites, watch ytube tests and what not to have "AN IDEA" (because, its all it is...an IDEA, not 100% facts...those only Bungie knows) of how this stuff works. Bungie made a murky job about the various stats that affect gameplay and I'd be all about that IF they didn't mention those existed. But they do. They show you stat bars of various stats that you don't know exactly what they mean or they show you atribute bars your character possesses but you don't have the slightlest idea of what they actually mean. 

 

In that regard, I'm sorry, but Bungie needs to get their language together and make sense. If there are stats that are to be hidden from us, then they should be hidden 100%. Both from data mining but also in perk descriptions and other things. If its hidden, I don't want to know it exists. If its mentioned, then explain to me what the fuck it is and how it works.

+1,000,000,000% couldn't agree more. This is my point when I say they need to simplify weapon stats cause when they make these big changes to weapon archetypes they usually muck things up even more and then you have the AR situation and the overnerfing of FR's which was never even mentioned in the patch notes. They still haven't returned the accuracy to HC's that they use to have. Like I've been saying, when you overcomplicate simple things you tend to screw them up when you need to make simple changes. 


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#9
Pbhou

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@mrscorps...  well said sir!!!

She did though!  That was worth reading, and I got no smartass retorts for it.

 

It's not like I don't agree with the OP, but she hit the nail on the head.



#10
Lil'Ubo

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She did though!  That was worth reading, and I got no smartass retorts for it.

 

It's not like I don't agree with the OP, but she hit the nail on the head.

He. MrScorps is a he! BEAT HIM! :P


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#11
michael6745

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He. MrScorps is a he! BEAT HIM! :P

 

I've made the same mistake in the past reading it MRScorps so the newer folks on here may make the gender mistake.  You never know with these screen names.  

 

I do know that amphibians are androgynous.  



#12
Lil'Ubo

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I've made the same mistake in the past reading it MRScorps so the newer folks on here may make the gender mistake.  You never know with these screen names.  

 

I do know that amphibians are androgynous.  

quiet Miguel!



#13
fupster

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It's Mister Scorps lol just fyi.

 

I think Metalman hit it on the head. They have alot going on with the weapons and that's what makes shooting shit in this game as fun as it is. There's also their "secret sauce" and GUI limitations as Jon Weisnewski and Sage Merrill have discussed on Crucible Radio. The stat bars are extremely flawed and leave alot out, there's even an inventory stat that explains why some rocket launchers still only give you 2 rockets with rocket ammo boots.

 

Now I agree that sometimes Bungie's language can be a little vague but at the same time it still leaves something to the imagination as far as the weapons go. Great games that pull you in for hundreds or thousands of hours usually have one thing in common: Exploration, and the only thing destiny really has for exploration at the moment is its weapons. I personally think it's super fun to try out different weapons and perks.

 

There's also a difference between theory and practice. Take Icarus for example, would it matter if it says "Increase Accuracy while airbourne" or "Narrows your accuracy cone by 25% while in the air"? You still have to take it into the game and test it out or it still means pretty much nothing. It's like Hipfire, increases accuracy from the hip. All I know is that it's awesome on my Hawksaw for when people come in close and I love it. Or my 1kys's, the quest one with shortgaze is awesome. My other one with longview and ambush, rifled barrel and hidden hand is also good but I found out I actually like it more with ambush than longview when it has hidden hand. If you just look at it on paper Longview with more aim assist should be better but didn't do as well with it. It's all about your play style and what you prefer, not how vaguely Bungie explains their perks. Just play and explore, if you don't notice the perk helping, it's junk to you.


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#14
mrscorps

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Sadly, not the first time I've been called "Mam..."

:(

 

It's Mister Scorps lol just fyi.

 

I think Metalman hit it on the head. They have alot going on with the weapons and that's what makes shooting shit in this game as fun as it is. There's also their "secret sauce" and GUI limitations as Jon Weisnewski and Sage Merrill have discussed on Crucible Radio. The stat bars are extremely flawed and leave alot out, there's even an inventory stat that explains why some rocket launchers still only give you 2 rockets with rocket ammo boots.

 

Now I agree that sometimes Bungie's language can be a little vague but at the same time it still leaves something to the imagination as far as the weapons go. Great games that pull you in for hundreds or thousands of hours usually have one thing in common: Exploration, and the only thing destiny really has for exploration at the moment is its weapons. I personally think it's super fun to try out different weapons and perks.

 

There's also a difference between theory and practice. Take Icarus for example, would it matter if it says "Increase Accuracy while airbourne" or "Narrows your accuracy cone by 25% while in the air"? You still have to take it into the game and test it out or it still means pretty much nothing. It's like Hipfire, increases accuracy from the hip. All I know is that it's awesome on my Hawksaw for when people come in close and I love it. Or my 1kys's, the quest one with shortgaze is awesome. My other one with longview and ambush, rifled barrel and hidden hand is also good but I found out I actually like it more with ambush than longview when it has hidden hand. If you just look at it on paper Longview with more aim assist should be better but didn't do as well with it. It's all about your play style and what you prefer, not how vaguely Bungie explains their perks. Just play and explore, if you don't notice the perk helping, it's junk to you.

I understand what you mean. Exploration. But the issue for me is weird skewed information. 

 

Why does 4th Horsemen have the same rate of fire as X shotgun but in reality shoots so much faster? Why does a Handcannon miss a target when its pointed at its head and in its optimal range? What accuracy really means in terms of stats? Recovery, etc etc. I mean...if its there, please explain what it is. If you don't want to explain to keep a secret sauce to yourselves, then hide it 100%. Don't allow these half truths. The GUI limitation is valid only to a given point. I don't need to know if the enemy has 170 or 171 health but it would help if I knew how much I have and how fast my health regen triggers or how fast I can run as well as how many agility, recovery, armor points I have. If I pick a weapon with +2 agility, I need to know if it represents 10% of my total or 1%. I need to know. The information is only partially there. That agility thing has bothered me since day one because it says in the perk +2 agility but no one knows how much that ammounts to as no one knows how much agility we do have. 

 

GIVE ME INFO!!!!! T_T


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#15
fupster

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A full bar of agility/recovery/armor is 10 if that helps lol. There are the bugged stat bars like Red Spectre does not have that much impact, I have also heard the In Times of Need shotgun actually has more range than it states.



#16
mrscorps

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A full bar of agility/recovery/armor is 10 if that helps lol. There are the bugged stat bars like Red Spectre does not have that much impact, I have also heard the In Times of Need shotgun actually has more range than it states.

I know it has 10 but why do we need to rely on data mining and tests and what not to GUESS it has 10? Why not simply tell that to us?



#17
michael6745

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I don't know any of this.  One thing I would prefer on the stats of a weapon is to have the numeric value as well as the slider.  



#18
Duke_Shambles

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[some really awesome stuff that perfectly and more articulately explains what i was trying to get across.]

Seriously, thank you, I'm not alone!

 

I guess my tone was a little more angry sounding than I meant it to be, I meant to come off a little annoyed, not raging and incensed beyond belief. I'm just seriously tired of them taking away great old perks like "double down" and replacing them with stuff like "guerilla fighter" with mumbo jumbo descriptions of the effect.

 

The point of this whole thing is that if, say you wanted to min/max with an armsday weapon and wait for a perfect roll on one of your favorite guns. you couldn't do it, there cannot even be a most optimized build for whatever you're trying to accomplish because it's impossible to figure out what half the perks even do or how much they do it. Saying that i need to try all of these perks on the weapon to see what I like is ridiculous given drop rates and the number of configurations possible, even more so now that you can't reroll weapons. Sure I can try to infer what the effect will be from my experience with other weapons, but that doesn't necessarily translate from weapon to weapon even on the same weapon type. Counterbalance on a Hakke Pulse Rifle feels completely different than Counterbalance on a Suros Pulse Rifle


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#19
fupster

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Well counterbalance is less necessary on some weapons than others. But I think what you're saying applies more so if rerolling was still a thing. Without rerolling, you get a drop, play around with it stock and level it up and see how the perks affect it.

 

Now I can see knowing your stuff for selecting rolls from the gunsmith so you pick the best one.


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#20
Avendus

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This reminds me of last night when I logged on for armsday after reset. I went to check the perks on a few and some left me confused as to what they actually do and I thought to myself "uhh maybe I should wait until PD arms recommendations video comes out...". I shouldn't have to do that. 


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#21
templar72

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I think this is the most annoying factor in reagrds to Bungie not being straight with us and banding lovely flowery words.  We should be treated like adults and we would accept things better.  The crimson fiasco is a joke, there is such an inbalance and your right when a new player told me that they struggled to find out how to proceed thru the game.  it wasnt clear to them.

 

Surely we need clarity/clear straight talk.

 

I really enjoy this game but recently Ive fallen away and its a shame after having fun.

 

the bottom line is enjoying 



#22
w00dzs

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Do like i do, use the one that makes the coolest pew pew sound.  

 

Unlike a normal RPG where you can figure out what heck the perks do, its a real toss up. In fallout it tell you +15 damage to humans. Well you can easily look at your damage stats and know what you are going to do to humans.  Destiny is a toss up.