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Xero Chance - Weapon of The Week


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#51
Xero

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Update on Vision of Confluence posted

 

Week 11: 20 July - 27 July 2015
Hawkmoon
http://db.planetdest...view/3164616407
Obtained from: Nightfall - Let's see, I traded 50 Deaths for it so hopefully it is as good as they say

 

Initial Thoughts: (Un-Upgraded)

 

Back to Hand Cannon drops for me, thanks RNG !

Everyone is always going on about how good Hawkmoon is and tbh I have sort of neglected playing with the one I had since getting it.

Now though as it dropped for me during NF again I will endeavour to give it the attention it deserves.

 

Let's see if the slower firing rate gets to me before I appreciate the devastation that comes with potentially having 3 bullets in the mag that are capable of melting faces.

 

Perks:
Luck in The Chamber

 

 

Hammer Forged

Quickdraw

Speed Reload

 

Holding Aces

 

 

Stay Tuned for more updates

 

Final Update:

 

I have finished my week with the Hawkmoon and as stated in an earlier post I can buy into all the hype now.

This weapon embodies the true spirit of the class it belongs to and truly feels like a Hand Cannon.

It utterly destroys anything it comes up against and can probably be described best as being the Chuck Norris of HC's

 

The fire rate is slightly slower than some of the other "big" HC's but once you get the hang of it you'll be overjoyed when you see the damage output it can deliver, albeit at a moderate pace.

 

I would recommend that if you are on PS4 and have this already, you level it up and spend some quality time with it :)



#52
the_co_founder

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Enjoy it while you can before the next nerf.  I absolutely love this gun.  It can be used for nearly every shield type, not that it adapts, but it just doesnt care.  The magazine is so large for sustained bullets, plus the bonus damage.  Oh how I love thee Hawkmoon



#53
Xero

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Founder, you think Hammer Forged worth it over Speed Reload?



#54
Lokhe

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Founder, you think Hammer Forged worth it over Speed Reload?

 

Nah, it doesn't need Hammer Forged to be a sniper :P



#55
Xero

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All I can say is one session with the Hawkmoon and I can see why everyone likes it

I'm cautiously optimistic about my chances of completing this week without bursting into tears when I try to do higher level activites with it


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#56
Xero

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Update on Vision of Confluence posted

 

Week 11: 27 July - 03 August 2015
Vex Mythoclast
http://db.planetdest.../view/346443849
Obtained from: Atheon - YAY ! - No wait they nerfed it back to being useless in the last patch right?

 

Initial Thoughts: (Un-Upgraded)

 

So the Vex was good and then it was bad and now it is worse ? Or was it bad and then it was great and now it is somewhere in between?

Who is sure anymore.

I've wanted this since the first time I heard one fire (at me) and was overjoyed for a few seconds when it finally dropped after a titan effort to get Atheon down on Friday.

Let's see if this is as bad as they ... yeah spent 5 minutes with it and I can already tell this is going to be a tough week. I'll have to stock up on Secondary Synth :)

 

it has the handling of an AR and the damage output of a Fusion? or is that the Stability of an AR with the Range of a Fus ... nvm I'm already at a loss as to what this is actually supposed to be in terms of usage.

 

 

Perks:

 

Zen Moment

 

Extended Mag

Send It

Lightweight

Crowd Control

 

 

Stay Tuned for more updates

 

Final Update:

 

Sooooooo ... It has been a long week, and by that I mean that I've had immense issues with this weapon

It is fun to play with and is truly a unique AR / Fusion Experience and at times, it can appear to be fairly useful

Unfortunately it does not suit my playstyle at all though, I've struggled with Recoil, I've struggled with maintaining a steady stream of bullets to the face of whatever I'm facing and I've struggled finding ammo during the Nightfall enough to firmly say that I truly dislike this rilfe and will in all probability not be taking it out of my vault unless something drastic happens to shore up the range / Damage Falloff and Ammo Issues.

 

Nothing sucks like facing an Ogre and having your primary run out of Ammo.

I tried harsh words, I tried a winning smile but in the end, the Ogre just didn't care about my issues.


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#57
Lokhe

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Update on Vision of Confluence posted

 

Week 11: 27 July - 03 August 2015
Vex Mythoclast
http://db.planetdest.../view/346443849
Obtained from: Atheon - YAY ! - No wait they nerfed it back to being useless in the last patch right?

 

Initial Thoughts: (Un-Upgraded)

 

So the Vex was good and then it was bad and now it is worse ? Or was it bad and then it was great and now it is somewhere in between?

Who is sure anymore.

I've wanted this since the first time I heard one fire (at me) and was overjoyed for a few seconds when it finally dropped after a titan effort to get Atheon down on Friday.

Let's see if this is as bad as they ... yeah spent 5 minutes with it and I can already tell this is going to be a tough week. I'll have to stock up on Secondary Synth :)

 

it has the handling of an AR and the damage output of a Fusion? or is that the Stability of an AR with the Range of a Fus ... nvm I'm already at a loss as to what this is actually supposed to be in terms of usage.

 

 

Perks:

 

Zen Moment

 

Extended Mag

Send It

Lightweight

Crowd Control

 

 

Stay Tuned for more updates

 

It's not terrible. The worst thing about it is the low reserve ammo. It relies heavily on Field Scout and its other perks so saying you're gonna have a tough week after 5 min is jumping to conclusions ;)

 

Congrats on finally landing this beautiful baby!



#58
Xero

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My Main concern with it is the Range and Recoil, both are not nearly as good as one would expect from something that is supposed to be a combination of both AR's and Fusions, lol although being a hybrid of the two worst PvE weapon classes should highlight the potential issue with the weapon from the onset.



#59
Lokhe

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My Main concern with it is the Range and Recoil, both are not nearly as good as one would expect from something that is supposed to be a combination of both AR's and Fusions, lol although being a hybrid of the two worst PvE weapon classes should highlight the potential issue with the weapon from the onset.

 

With Zen Moment and Send It, landing consistent head shots is not a problem imo. You need the Field Scout to use it in PvE but I mean, it's not a Scout Rifle :P



#60
Insolentploebe

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Re: VoC

I only barely got VoC and fully upgraded, I like it quite a bit. Burn aside it's probably marginally superior to the Fang but Arc burn comes up more often so I suspect the Fang may still get more use.

That said, it crossed my mind to see how VoC performed in this week's all-burn Omnigul Nightfall paired with Patience and Time. Seemed like a match made in heaven as VoC would two-shot all the Shanks and P+T could two-shot all Major Knights and Captains (P+T couldn't do this pre-HoW so something changed). Pretty empowering.

Re: Mythoclast

I have not been the biggest fan of this weapon, but don't have any particular qualms with it either. The main detraction is that it's general characteristics can be closely approximated by three Solar-burn primaries I already have that don't tie up an exotic slot: Vision of Confluence, a Solar Wolve's Leash, and Abyss Defiant with its Focused Fire perk. Except none of those are handcuffed for ammo the way the Mythoclast is. It's a fun weapon and I enjoy any time I get an excuse to use it but I don't use it in critical sorts of engagements.

#61
Lokhe

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(P+T couldn't do this pre-HoW so something changed). Pretty empowering.


It's 365 now, that changed :)

#62
Insolentploebe

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It's 365 now, that changed :)


I guess maybe. So back when it was 335 in a level-30 Nightfall and it couldn't do the "two-shot", but now it's 365 and can get the "two-shot" in a level-32 Nightfall. I don't know how Bungie works their numbers but I'd assumed max damage and light level both scaled linearly with each other. Anyway, it's great for Patience and Time, I think it may be getting a lot more use from me now for a while.

#63
Lokhe

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I guess maybe. So back when it was 335 in a level-30 Nightfall and it couldn't do the "two-shot", but now it's 365 and can get the "two-shot" in a level-32 Nightfall. I don't know how Bungie works their numbers but I'd assumed max damage and light level both scaled linearly with each other. Anyway, it's great for Patience and Time, I think it may be getting a lot more use from me now for a while.

 

It's not quite that simple. The damage value you see above an enemy when you hit them will be different depending on a few things. For the purpose of demonstrating I will just make some numbers up but you will get the point.

 

If you shoot a lvl 32 Knight with a 365 P&T you will do 2000 damage. If you shoot a level 12 Knight with a 365 P&T you will do 1200 damage

 

If you shoot a lvl 32 Knight with a 365 P&T you will do 2000 damage. If you shoot a level 32 Knight with a 331 P&T you will do 1700 damage. 

 

In other words, the damage value of a weapon is more like a quality indicator. You could say that a weapon capable of 365 damage is in a higher tier, and indeed, blue weapons don't go up to 365.

 

I'm not sure how Bungie counters (or if they even do at all) the power creep this creates, in the newest end game content. Presumably level 34 enemies have more HP than they would have if they were simply linearly scaled up, to balance out the more powerful weapons.

 

The Nightfall however, is (probably) just a scaled up version of the original strike with added modifiers. In other words, your P&T is (according to Reddit science) ~12.9% stronger in the Nightfall now than it was before HoW :)



#64
LegionaryForce

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It's not quite that simple. The damage value you see above an enemy when you hit them will be different depending on a few things. For the purpose of demonstrating I will just make some numbers up but you will get the point.

 

If you shoot a lvl 32 Knight with a 365 P&T you will do 2000 damage. If you shoot a level 12 Knight with a 365 P&T you will do 1200 damage

 

...

 

So, I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, but this makes *no* sense... just common sense, a lower level enemy should take more damage. Yes, i get that it's just a game mechanic, but still, silly.

 

About Vex: I have 2 of them and can't bring myself to upgrade them. I just keep hearing that they're not terribly effective. VoC and Fang (mentioning Fang b/c it was mentioned above) are both great, and 2 of my main go-to weapons.

 

On P+T... I've generally defaulted to Blackhammer and Icebreaker, but now I'm thinking it's time to get cracking on upgrading one of these... although I have 3, I've always held off. Hey, has anyone tried to take out an ogre in the first stage of Crota on HM with a P+T? If it can do that, it will seal the deal... 



#65
the_co_founder

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About Vex: I have 2 of them and can't bring myself to upgrade them. I just keep hearing that they're not terribly effective. VoC and Fang (mentioning Fang b/c it was mentioned above) are both great, and 2 of my main go-to weapons.

 

 

 

 

You should definitely upgrade at least one of them.  It wrecks on solar burns, and against the hive. It is also highly effective in PVP.



#66
Lokhe

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So, I'm certainly not saying you're wrong, but this makes *no* sense... just common sense, a lower level enemy should take more damage. Yes, i get that it's just a game mechanic, but still, silly.


I think it's a good system because you do more damage to low level stuff since you have access to a higher tier of weapons when going back. Essentially as if you had legendaries when you were lvl 5 or whatever :)

#67
Xero

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Aren't damage values calculated as percentages of your target health

with the DMG count on your weapon as a factor?



#68
Lokhe

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Aren't damage values calculated as percentages of your target health

with the DMG count on your weapon as a factor?

 

Possibly, doesn't contradict the model as I explained it though?



#69
Xero

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No, that validates what you said

ie, lower tier enemies take less damage from the same upgraded weapon but as apercentage of their total health, therefore explaining the reason for that lower dmg counter



#70
Lokhe

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No, that validates what you said

ie, lower tier enemies take less damage from the same upgraded weapon but as apercentage of their total health, therefore explaining the reason for that lower dmg counter

 

Lower level yes. Not sure if that's how it works but the effect is the same so I guess it doesn't matter if it's a percentage of max health or if your damage is reduced by a percentage.



#71
Xero

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I think it has to be a percentage of the health of your target

Take Atheon as an example, if you have weapons of light active and you fire at him with Ice Breaker for example you are doing 20k Damage. He is essentially level 30 on Hard Mode

If you have weapons of light active and you snipe a regular level 30 Knight you are doing 2000 damage.

If these calculations are based on your target's health and is calculated as a percentage of that health, that would mean that Atheon has 10x more health than your average level 30 knight.

 

This would also result in your weapons effectively doing less damage on Yellow Majors as I would assume that their helth pool is greatly increased to differentiate them from the normal enemies.

 

If it where a percentage of the weapon's damage being increased / decreased, you would not be able to do that much damage to a level 30 major as it would be level related or at least calcualted based on your target's level and applied as a decreased / increased damage modifier ontop of that.

 

I think  ...



#72
Lokhe

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I think it has to be a percentage of the health of your target

Take Atheon as an example, if you have weapons of light active and you fire at him with Ice Breaker for example you are doing 20k Damage. He is essentially level 30 on Hard Mode

If you have weapons of light active and you snipe a regular level 30 Knight you are doing 2000 damage.

If these calculations are based on your target's health and is calculated as a percentage of that health, that would mean that Atheon has 10x more health than your average level 30 knight.

 

This would also result in your weapons effectively doing less damage on Yellow Majors as I would assume that their helth pool is greatly increased to differentiate them from the normal enemies.

 

If it where a percentage of the weapon's damage being increased / decreased, you would not be able to do that much damage to a level 30 major as it would be level related or at least calcualted based on your target's level and applied as a decreased / increased damage modifier ontop of that.

 

I think  ...

 

Honestly, it's all very confusing. I've been watching some YouTube videos to look at some data and from studying the Black Hammer for a bit, this is what I've come up with:

 

(level 32 Guardian, pre HoW release)

 

A lvl 32 Major Knight takes 3414 damage to the head and has ~15000 health.

 

A lvl 33 Major Knight takes 2322 damage to the head and has ~15000 health.

 

A lvl 30 Major Vandal takes 3414 damage to the head and has ~4000 health.

 

I think this proves that damage is not a percentage of the enemies total health right? But it also seems to lock damage according to "type" rather than level. I think it's safe to say though, that if you go out on Cosmodrome patrol, find Randal the Vandal (level 8) and put a round of Black Hammer in his head, he's not gonna take 3414 damage.

 

Makes me wonder if enemies work like Guardians, that they are different after lvl 20 and that every level thereafter is just a "difficulty slider" for delta scaling purposes. In other words, every enemy of level 20 - 35 is the same, but requires that you be of a specific level to do "normal" damage to it.

 

................................................................................... MAAAAAAAAAAYBE.



#73
Xero

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Honestly it might be all of these things worked out in some equation that only Bungie knows the true value of.

Might be that after a certain level they are calculated differently.

The level of your Guardian is also used to determine if the end result has a level penalty percentage (-30% for example) applied to the total of the damage output



#74
Lokhe

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Honestly it might be all of these things worked out in some equation that only Bungie knows the true value of.

Might be that after a certain level they are calculated differently.

The level of your Guardian is also used to determine if the end result has a level penalty percentage (-30% for example) applied to the total of the damage output

 

It's certainly giving me a head ache haha :P



#75
Insolentploebe

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Anyway get bigger guns for bigger enemies.